Interview Tuesday: Meet Tennessean, Masters Runner and 3 Time Unaided Vol State 500K Finisher Dallas Smith

Start of Flying Monkey Marathon (Photo by Jobie Williams)

I had not met Dallas but was told about him by another runner and he was gracious enough to do this interview.  In reading Dallas' responses, and also reading his book Bench of Despair, I am glad he did the interview.  Dallas is a 3 time Vol State Finisher, all unaided, with the last two making him the oldest unaided finisher.  Enjoy learning more about Dallas and let his story be as encouraging to you as it was to me.


Tell us a little about yourself not necessarily related to running: age, where born, education, area you live in, etc…..
I’m 78 years old. I was born and raised in the hard-scrabble, hillside country of Jackson County, Tennessee. Subsistence farming mostly. We grew about everything we ate: milk, eggs chickens, pork, vegetables. Some wild game and fish from the river. My mother canned beans, made hominy, made jelly and jam from wild blackberries we picked. We picked up hickory nuts and black walnuts in the fall. She dried apples. We lived in a different world then.

Went to a one-room school house that had eight grades and on a good day maybe twice that many students, taught by the same lady that had taught my daddy and mother. 

Got a BS and an MS in engineering at Tennessee Tech University. PhD at Virginia Tech in 1969. 

I worked as a bridge design engineer for State of Tennessee in Nashville. Professor at Virginia Tech one year and then moved to Tennessee Tech University, my alma mater, and stayed there for 29 years before leaving. Consulted in aerospace industry on aero-structural matters for US Army Missile Command, NASA, etc. Made some money. Spent it on motorcycles and airplanes.

I have three grown kids, a daughter and two sons. Four grandsons. One great grandson and one great granddaughter. 

I live in Cookeville Tennessee with my wife Jo Ann.

Run 4 Don 15k, a race he finished in 1:13:14

What is your profession?
Well, I run and write now. That doesn’t make me much money – it doesn’t need to - but it does make me a living of sorts. I guess you could call it retirement. But that word totally fails to describe my life. I don’t like to use it.


How did you start running and what prompted you to do so? 
I was a jogger for 17 years before I became a runner. Runners know that the difference in a jogger and a runner is an entry form – runners enter races. I didn’t do that, I didn’t associate with runners, I didn’t know there was a publication called Runner’s World. I was just a fitness jogger. I’d go out on my lunch hour and run six miles. It was a stress reliever. I had the idea it was good for me somehow.

But, I had the sneaky notion that I might be a decent runner if I ever tried. I used to work at manual labor in the field all day, day after day; that’s a kind of endurance. Finally, I don’t know, the curiosity to find out got to me. I signed up for a local 10k secretly – secretly in case I made a fool of myself. The race was produced by the ROTC Department of Tennessee Tech.

Well, I won my age group and I also won best master (which was over 50 there) and they allowed double-dipping, so I got both trophies, tall glass beer mugs.

But here’s the most incredible thing: I was a professor of engineering then. My favorite student and advisee turned out to be the Race Director! (His name is Phillip Messer. He’s probably a general now.) He was the student commander of the ROTC Battalion. As such, he was the RD. So it was Phillip who shook my hand and presented me my trophies. 

The university photographer snapped a picture of that presentation and the picture went into his files without my seeing it. My wife worked at the university then and knew her way around it pretty good. She secretly found the photo, had an enlargement made, matted and framed it and gave it to me as a gift. A big surprise! It hangs on the wall yet. Here it is: the engineering student shaking hands with his old professor. 

That was an amazing outcome.


How long have you been running?

Kim Boremam-Montgomery & Angie James W/ Dallas During 2017 Vol State

That first race was in 1998. I was 57. That was about 20 years ago. But as I said before, I’d been what you’d call a jogger for 17 years before that. Don’t know if you’d want to add those two numbers, but if you do, that would amount to 37 years. 

So that might be a measure of the wear and tear on my knees, etc. Truth is: I don’t think it’s wear and tear at all. My knees and other joints still work fine. I suspect running helps build strong joints, instead of destroying them. That ain’t likely a popular opinion.


Did you participate in any other sports over the years?
Fringe sports, individual sports mostly. I was good at archery and won local contests.

Motorcycle trials – I was terrible at that, but it was fun, and a friend and I traveled around local states in a pickup going to meets.

In college I lettered four years on the rifle team at Tennessee Tech, which was a varsity sport. My second year, I was the team MVP. I eventually rose to 2nd best collegiate shooter in the southeast, 16th in the nation. (After me, my old team won the NCAA National Championship three consecutive times, a remarkable feat).

Did you run in grade school, High School or College? 
Running wasn’t really a thing when I was in high school. I might’ve played basketball – the coach asked me to play. But the team practiced after school, so I would’ve had to stay after school. I had to catch the school bus. It was an hour and a half ride home, and I had to milk the cows and feed the livestock when I got there. So it was impractical for me to play. We’ll never know what kind of basketball player I might’ve been. 

But we can gain some idea of the kind of runner I might’ve been by the magic of age-grading. And my age-graded times place me among the best runners in the state. That’s an opportunity I missed – due to the time and place I was born. But that’s ok.


So we get an idea of where you have been with running can you share your PR’s for: 5K, 10K marathon and any other distance you may have run.

At "The Rock" at end of 2017 Vol State

I was maybe running my best in my mid-sixties. That may be surprising. Since I started in my late fifties, I suppose a training effect explains that. After my mid-sixties, my times took a set-back while I did Ironman races. The biking and swimming hurt my running.

But I’ll give you three times that come to mind, all at age 64:

• Certified 5k (in July heat) of 19:06
• Certified 15k in 1:00:41
• Certified marathon (a hilly one in Nashville) of 3:12:42

I could go on and on with this. I’ve set 107 single-age state records in Tennessee, by my count. I typically compete in eight distinct distances so there are ample records to shoot for. I’ve run lots of other state-record times - times that didn’t count. Some were in other states, some were in Europe, some on courses that weren’t certified or certification had expired, etc. It is not a terribly high priority anymore.

I’ve run 100 marathons (or longer). Probably won my age group in the majority of those. (Some didn’t have age groups, some were casual training runs, some were social runs, etc. 


Have you run any races lately and do you have any races planned?
Most recent race was the RC Cola – Moon Pie 10-miler, (June 16, 2018) a hot and very hilly race. ( keep saying “hilly,” but I live in Tennessee where that is nearly always true.)

Anyway, my time for the 10 miles was 1:24:52. That’s been certified as a state record for a 77-year-old man. (I had a birthday just nine days later). That age grades to around 54:54, if you want to see that.


What is your most memorable race or races and share a little about at least one of them?
Gosh, I’ve run some 285 races. Each one was special in some way. It’s hard to pick, isn’t it?

When I first qualified for Boston was special. It was a marathon on a paved park trail in Anchorage, AK. I had just started running marathons and figured I’d qualify someday but didn’t really expect to there. And the trip was special. I usually travel alone. That fact alone heightens adventure. But, this time my oldest son traveled with me and he even got himself into shape to run the associated 5k, the only race he’s ever run to this day.

A few miles from the finish line I realized I had a shot if I could only maintain a pace I thought I could do, eight-minute-miles, if I recall. I made the BQ by 45 seconds. Afterwards I went staggering drunkenly across the park grass and goose droppings saying over and over, “I made it. I made it. I made it.” It’s a moment I’ll always remember.

Ever since then, 19 years ago, I’ve been perpetually Boston-qualified because I run several marathons each year, most at a BQ pace.

I’ve actually run Boston nine times. In three consecutive runs, I finished second, second and third in my age group, that last one on the day of the bombing. I’ve been unable to break thru to first. That has been a big disappointment.

I won my age group in the New York City Marathon, despite taking a bloody fall in Brooklyn.

I won my age group in the Chicago Marathon, on a hot day when leg cramps nearly shut me down on Michigan Ave. I had just enough slack left to finish it.

Won my age group in the Barcelona Marathon, which was special because of that city’s extraordinary architecture, character and so on. I was staying in Spain with a Spanish friend 40 years younger than me, and we drove from his house. The trip itself, his Madrid friends, the entire episode, was memorable.


What sort of training do you do?

2016 Flying Monkey Marathon

I do a lot of running, over 2,000 miles per year. Last year I ran 2,407 miles. I try – I emphasis “try” – to either run a race or do a track workout each week. 4 x 800m is my favorite, or 3 miles at threshold pace.


As a masters runner what changes have you made in your training as you have gotten older?
I was old when I started. I’m still doing the same stuff, just doing it slower.


What is your favorite distance to run and race?
I like that question.

Marathon is the distance I love. It’s the longest distance you can run fast. It’s not my best distance. Far from it. I always fail to run it as well as my training and other races tell me I should. It’s maddening. It’s like a goal I can never reach. So it has special intrigue and mystery about it. I never know what will happen.

My best distance is around 15k.  


Do you have any long-range plans?
Hahaha! When you are 78, long-range may not be very long. But, anyway, I don’t give a hoot. I make plans anyway. They may not work out. I’m realistic about that. 

I plan to keep going. I expect next year I’ll take a shot at the Vol State 500k again. I’ve finished it three times unaided. Last two times I became the oldest unaided runner to ever finish. 

Ha! I guess that’s a world record of some kind.

Another goal: Boston hasn’t seen the last of me. In the upper age groups, you have the best chance of winning if you are the youngest in the age group, speed is so age-dependent. So if I have to, I’ll still be running it at 80.


What do you struggle with most with regards to running?
During all of 2014 and part of 2015 had had a bout with an auto-immune disease called Graves Disease. It ruined my running speed, but I did keep running, just at a trudging pace.

Recently, I had a problem with eye drops intended for glaucoma. They were beta-blockers – which slow pulse and respiration rate, and so, also impede speed. After a few trials, I’ve finally found an alternative that does not hurt my running.

So, I guess the answer to your question is: I have to deal with ailments common to old age – either work thru them or work around them. But I’ve kept running.


I just read your book called Bench of Despair – can you share something about it and why you wrote it.?
I didn’t want to write it. It describes my experiences in the Vol State 500k the second time I ran it. My run collapsed and I had such a desperate struggle. It took a long time to recover, five weeks just to grow new soles on my feet. I wanted to forget. But it wouldn’t let me. Five months went by and it still gnawed. Then an editor asked me to write a story for a literary magazine. I thought maybe I can cut out a poignant part of that adventure – crossing the Cumberland Plateau – and write a short story. That didn’t work. I kept needing to explain something that had gone before. Everything was connected to something else. Finally, I gave up and just decided to begin at the start, the water’s edge, and write the whole thing. Once I rendered that decision, it went quickly and I finished the first draft in just over a month. You meet a lot of characters in reading it. Although, the book is nonfiction, it’s novelistic in style, using the techniques of fiction writers. 

I also saw you had two other books “Going Down Slow” and “Falling Forward” – can you share something about these and where you can purchase them?

They are adventure memoirs much like Bench Of Despair, only twice as long. Although each is based on my experiences in traveling to and running races, I try to focus on the adventure and not on the author. 

Each is available on Amazon.com (see links above) in either print or electronic form. Additionally, Falling Forward is available in paperback.

I think Going Down Slow is my favorite because of its wide variety of content and its literary tone. It’s more artful.


What do you see as a trend in running?

 Photo by Leanne Goodwin

The interest in super-ultra marathons, let’s say, races like the Vol State 500k, we’ve just been talking about. Or The Barkley Marathons, a race so hard hardly anyone ever finishes it. Or the Sri Chinmoy 3,100-mile challenge around a half-mile block in Queens, New York, a race that lasts 52 days and it’s taking place now, as we speak.

You don’t have to go to Broadway to see an absurdist play. These races are absurdist events. How long before someone has a race around the world? A marathon on Mars? But people take the challenge. That even includes me. At my age, doing crazy stuff. 


If you had one, well maybe two or three, things to say those that are running to encourage them what would it be?
Running is not for everyone. But it will help anyone who takes it up.

Don’t over- think it, don’t obsess over shoes. Buy whatever fits. Then wear it out.
Assume every approaching car is aiming to kill you. If it fails, you win.
Cross the street in the middle of the block – an intersection is the worse place to cross.


Do you have a website or other social media site you would like to share?
You can find me on Facebook and on Twitter 

My main blog is called Turnaround and a second one is Smithbend

Each blog is a depository of stories on a topic that interested me enough to write it and post it at the time. You could spend a lot of time exploring either, I reckon. What you’d call a race reports is scarce on both.


Any closing comments?
Failure. Failure is more interesting than succeeding. That’s where you find drama, heroic struggle and poignancy. I’ve never failed to finish a marathon, but I’ve failed on other projects. If you ain’t failing, you ain’t trying.

One example: 
My young Spanish friend and I tried to run across Spain on the historic trail called el Camino de Santiago, which runs from France to Santiago on Spain’s western shore, once the end of the world. We crossed the Pyrenees from St Jean, France to Pamplona, Spain in one day, the best single day of running I’ve ever done. Then a heat wave of historic proportions hit northern Spain, where we were. After a few days we failed on that great adventure – but not before we both nearly ended up in the hospital. How all that happened is a whole long story. The failure was abject. We aimed high. It remains the failure I’m most proud of.

Interview Tuesday: Meet Tennessee and Masters Runner Michelle McLellan

War Hammer 100  Winner

I have never met Michelle in person even though she has passed me in races.  I think I am one of those that goes out too fast and she passes later on:) I am looking forward to meeting her at this years Backyard Classic and I hope you are encouraged and inspired by her story


Tell us a little about yourself not necessarily related to running: age, where born, education, area you live in, etc…..
I’m a 49-year-old mother of 3. I was born in Morgantown, WV but have lived most of my life in east Tennessee, currently residing in Elizabethton, TN. I graduated with a BSN in 1991 and have been employed at the local VA Hospital for the past 28 years.


What is your profession?
I am a registered nurse working in Utilization Management, so I basically review charts all day and work with physicians to determine appropriate levels of care.


How did you start running and what prompted you to do so? 
My good friend, Angelina, and I decided to sign up to walk a 10K that was held locally to raise money for a faith based homeless program. There was a 2-hour cutoff and we felt confident we could walk it that fast. We ended up jogging a bit just to fit in and I could hardly move the next 2 days. I kept thinking about the amazing ladies we saw that ran the whole thing and figured if they could do it, I could to. The 10K was in March. In May, my 16-year-old daughter, who played soccer and ran track, asked me what I wanted for Mother’s Day. I asked her to take me to a local park and run a mile with me. I had to stop and walk 3 times, but knew I could do it. Angelina and I started running together and 2 weeks later, we ran a mile without stopping to walk. I felt like a champion and just kept going further and further. After a couple of years running on the roads, I hooked up with a local trail group. Most of them were doing ultras and I could not wrap my brain around that craziness. It took several months of persuading and a bit of pure trickery to get me out for a long run but I have been hooked ever since. Those “crazies” are now my closest friends both on the trails and off. 

Michelle Finishing 120 miles w/her daughter at 2016 Holston River Endurance Challenge

How long have you been running?
Seven years


Did you participate in any other sports over the years?
I played recreational soccer until I was a teenager and rode hunter/jumpers in local horse shows until I was an adult. I enjoyed both activities but lacked the talent to excel at either.


Did you run in grade school, High School or College?
No.

2017 Yamacraw 50k

So we get an idea of where you have been with running can you share your PR’s for: 5K, 10K marathon and any other distance you may have run in the past. 

• 5k-21:07 (2016)
• 10K- 45:47 (2015)
• Half Marathon- 1:42:41 (2018)
• Marathon- 3:38:00 (2015)
• 50K- 4:57 (2015)
• 50m-9:54 (2016)
• 100k- 15:08 (2017)
• 100m-22:12 (2017)
• 12h- 55 miles (2016)
• 36h-124.5 miles (2017)
• 48h- 152 miles (2017)

You just ran in the, and won the women’s race,  inaugural War Hammer 100 – how was the race, heard it was a great race but a tough one?
It was more challenging than I anticipated. No 100 miler is easy, but based on the elevation profile and course description, I had underestimated this course. It was a very wet course with puddles every few feet. These were puddles that you either had to go off trail to avoid, or plunge through. They varied in depth to ankle deep to thigh deep and you never knew how deep until you stepped in. It had several miles of road sections and the heat made those miles just brutal. There was one section that we were told to expect bushwhacking. I got turned around in this section and ended up with very scratched up legs and one rattlesnake encounter. The race ended with a never-ending climb up an ATV trail. I was exhausted by the time I made it to the top of that. I was so happy to see a vacant chair at the finish line. My arms were shaking trying to hold up the large war hammer which was the first place trophy.

After the War Hammer 100

You also won the 2018 Backyard Classic – how was that race?
I am relatively new to the fixed time races and this was my first Kentucky timed race so I wasn’t sure what to expect as far as the conditions. The people were so friendly and the course was a nice mix of grass, trail, and asphalt/ concrete. There was a water crossing which felt amazing every 3 miles since the race was in August.  I was hoping to get at least 11 loops. On loop number 10, I started having leg cramps. I had to walk quite a bit of that loop and thought I might be done, but I started feeling better and was able to get 13 loops. I am looking very forward to running this race again in August.


Any suggests for anyone looking to start running Ultras?
Remove the word “can’t” from your vocabulary. With dedication and smart training, you can accomplish anything you want to accomplish. You must get outside of your comfort zone and push your limits to truly see what you are capable of. There are highs and lows during ultras, just like there is in life. Enjoy the highs and know that the lows will not last forever. Just keep pushing forward and it will get better.


I am doing my first 100 at Tunnel Hill this year any advice?
Start slower than you feel like you should. I am a very conservative starter. I am slow to warm up before I feel like I can really run. This has served me well in long distances. I see so many people pass me early in races and I must remind myself that we each need to run our own race. Sometimes these fast people stay ahead of me but many times I pass them late in the race and I am thankful that I saved myself. There is nothing that can compare to the last 15-20 miles in a 100 mile race. Tell yourself that dropping is not an option. The Good Lord willing, the next several hours will pass whether you finish or not, and you would certainly rather look back at these hours with a sense of accomplishment rather than regret. Pain is only temporary.

2018 Hellbender  W/Rick Gray

What is your most memorable race or races and share a little about at least one of them?
Every race has memories and most of those memories are positive. Ultrarunners seem to have amnesia when it comes to the bad stuff, or we would not keep signing up. One of my favorite races is in North Carolina called Quest for the Crest. It’s a 50K and I’ve run it all 4 times, using the term “run” loosely. It’s a very challenging course in both steepness and technicality. Sean Blanton, the RD, had told us before the race that evacuating us due to injury would be very complicated and expensive, so not to drop unless it is a very serious injury. I started having severe foot pain with 8 miles to go. I kept thinking about his words and kept plugging along with tears. Once I finished, I told my friends that I thought I broke my foot. My friend Rick, who subscribes to the “run through injury” philosophy, assured me that it wasn’t broken. I tried hard to keep running through the pain but it was only getting worse. I went to the doctor 10 days later and confirmed the fracture. I run Quest with a vengeance since then.

Another fun memory was Promise Land 50k, a David Horton race in Virginia. I had taken a bad fall and was cramping whenever I tried to get back up. A young man offered to help me up but I assured him I would be fine and he needed to go on. I finally got back up and ended up catching up with him several miles later. He was very relieved to see me and we ran a few miles together. He said, “I bet you were really something back in your day.”. I had to explain that I was rather new to the sport and this was “my day”. I always laugh when I think about that comment.


Do you have a favorite workout you do?
I enjoy all my workouts, except while I am doing them. I do not cross train so my workouts are either running or core workouts. I love running hills and I’m learning to embrace speedwork. I enjoy a tough lunge workout that I learned from Lee Conner and that has helped me with my climbing.  I don’t keep a super strict training schedule. I try to incorporate speed work, a long run, and hills weekly and a good core workout at least 3 days a week.


How about a favorite route you like to run?
As far as trail runs, I love them all. I am fortunate to live near the AT and love to run with my friends there. My favorite section is Cross Mountain to Watauga Dam Road (16 miles), of course stopping at Vandeventer Shelter to take in the beautiful view. When it comes to training on the road, I have a route I call “The Mighty Hill Run” which is a 10-mile loop with 5 huge hills.


What is your favorite distance to run and race?

2017 Hellgate

I really enjoy all races and distances. My favorite distance would be a 50 miler or 100K. It’s long enough that my conservative start doesn’t impact my overall time too much and short enough to not have to enter the pain cave that is inevitable in a 100 miler.


Do you have any long-range plans?
I hope to remain healthy enough to continue to run and race for several more years. My long-range plans include traveling west and exploring parts of the country I’ve never seen. My first destination would be Glacier National park in Montana and I’d also love to run the Wonderland Trail in Washington. As far as races, I’d like to run at least 7 more Hellgate 100k’s for a total of 10 and run Vol State in 2019.


What do you like best about living and running in KY?
I love Kentucky! I have family in Bardstown and have always enjoyed staying with them there or at their lake house in Elizabethtown. The people are very friendly and supportive at races and some areas are absolutely breathtaking. I’ve run the Yamacraw 50K and No Business 100m in Kentucky and the rock formations are just stunning.


What do you struggle with most with regards to running?

After 72 miles on the AT w/Lianne Jennings, Rick Gray & Michael Sefanon

I struggle with balancing family, church, work, and running.  There are so many things I want to experience and there never seems to be enough time.


What do you see as a trend in running?
I am seeing more and more fixed time events pop up which I really enjoy. As boring as running a mile loop repeatedly for many hours sounds, it’s more like a party with some exercise. I enjoy my solitude during long trail races but I also enjoy changing it up with these loop courses where you can pretty much socialize the whole time. Logistically, the short loop courses are much easier to plan for.


If you had one, well maybe two or three, things to say those that are running to encourage them what would it be?

• Listen to your body. I don’t wear a watch and I don’t use strict training plans. I try to run based on how I feel.
• I encourage people to try new things regarding types of races and distances. You never know what you can do unless you try.
• Do not let a bad training run or a bad race discourage you. Analyze what went wrong and tweak your training to work on those areas.

Bluegrass Half Marathon 2017

You run/race in shirts that say “Race for Wandell” - what is the story behind the shirt?
I run every race in a Team Wandell shirt. Josh Wandell is a young man in his 30’s that was my daughter’s elementary school principal. He was an amazing athlete and was training for his first marathon when he was diagnosed with ALS. With the help of Ainsley’s Angels, we borrowed a cart and pushed him in his first marathon, Tobacco Road, in 2016. He caught the bug and was able to purchase his own cart. He was pushed in over 30 races in 2017. In March, the Guinness World Record for pushing an adult was broken by our team member Jeff Vance for the half marathon at the Shamrock Half Marathon in Virginia Beach. The guys have gotten so fast that it is rare that I can keep up with the team anymore but I always race in my Team Wandell shirt and draw strength from Josh. His motto is “Faith Over Fear” and his inspirational verse is Joshua 1:9 “ Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged, for the Lord your God will be with you wherever you go.” (Josh Wandell's website)


Any closing comments?
Thank you for the opportunity to tell you about myself. I hope I am able to inspire others to accomplish things they never imagined possible. I absolutely love what I do and challenge all runners to embrace each step. We are very blessed to be able to do what we do.